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Attributes: ST and Speed
Mon, 2007-02-19 00:35
The first time I saw GURPS I din't like the four attributes. In D&D you have 3 physikal an 3 mental attributes. I looks like in GURPS you have 3 pysikal and 1 mental attribute. I like symmetry, so I din't like the GURPS attributes.
I don't think so any more becaus for one is IQ a physikal attribute too (that's what you have your brain for) and on the other hand ST, DX and HT are used by ghosts too and play a role in mental task (like spells).
So you have 2 attributes, IQ and DX, used for Skills and you have ST and HT for hit points and fatigue (one way or the other). Thats symmetrical.
But Speed goes with HT+DX, breakng the symmetry.
Is there somthing to say about ST+IQ? I think demons brake pentagramms that way, but appart from that nothing commes to my mind. And why does ST has no role in Speed.
Mainly for symmetry I would opt for ST+HT for figuring Speed. DX can come in via running skill for extra efforts.
To take the body wheigt in account one could use something like ST/Mass instead of plain ST.
Since the symmetry between ST,HT and IQ,DX was broken from the beginning, there don't have to be something with DX+IQ for symmetry reasons. But I think there is use for it nevetheless.
(ST+HT)/4 for physikal velocity and (IQ+DX)/4 for reaction speed. (IQ for awarenes and DX for coordination.) I think it is much more resonable to use (IQ+DX)/4 to figure out who goes first in a supprise situation than (HT+DX)/4.
alimantando
Mon, 2007-02-26 04:13
#2
Re: Attributes: ST and Speed
Yeah, I know. Nothing realy works but "trial and like it or not".
I think i just wanted to show it to someone who is inclined to give it a thought. :-)
The good thing about GURPS is, that you can simply buy the speed you think approviate for your character. (You may have to persuade your gm.)
Sometimes I cant help myself and have to wonder.
What is a realistic relation between running and jumping, for example. Your jumping hight (meant is the vertical movement of your center of gravity, not the distance between you and the ground) is about proportional to the square of your velocity when your feet leave the ground. But running is not simply a series of forward jumps. Or ist is, but just not simpel. Strength is an issue for running unless the table for mass is finetuned to making this not so. Is it? I think the answer is bound to be "more or less".
By the way: If you say +5 ST doubles lift ability and +10 ST doubles damage, than you can have booth, logST and lift proportional square damage.
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Thanks for the interesting post. For what it's worth, I, like all armchair designers, have been intrigued by "symmetrical" attributes – physical, mental, maybe even "spiritual" – but in the end, I didn't keep that interest. I never did come across some scheme that always made perfect sense. And more to the point, I find I don't even care much for the artificial labeling of certain traits as attributes, while countless other traits are arbitrarily placed under advantages, features, sub-attributes, or other labels. It all raises questions: Why isn't, say, Charisma an attribute? Why is ST an attribute, when it's so different from the other atts in many ways? And so on, with the apparent answer to any such question being "RPG convention" or "designer whim".
Nothing wrong with that in terms of play, but it leads me to not fuss over the identity or essence of attributes. These days, I like a nicely fuzzy, all-encompassing "traits" label that everything falls under, without unneeded distinctions.
But stepping down from that soapbox, you have an interesting take on symmetry in atts. Given that a set of defined atts is the norm in RPGs, there's no harm in pondering new ways of looking at them, so let's do that:
Your suggestion of IQ as a physical attribute is interesting, as is your new categorization: not physical and mental, but "used for skills (IQ, DX)" and "used for non-skill, physical purposes (ST, HT)". I like the unique approach.
You're also looking for symmetry in making use of combinations of atts – that, too, is an approach I haven't seen before. You want the game to equally find some use for every added pair of two atts, correct?
Well, you're right that some combinations get no or little use: ST+IQ, or ST+HT, for example. Now, this is also somewhere where I personally don't see a need for the symmetry you're looking for, but if you want it and can find it, good for you.
I agree that IQ+DX is a very natural combination to represent reaction speed, if you create rules calling for that. As for ST+DX, it might make some measure of overall combat prowess, again if you can find some way to use it. But as for ST+HT as the base for Speed: well, as I've said elsewhere on the site, and as you note as well, that combo gives bad results unless you also account for weight. Though it seems to me that you'd be breaking symmetry by doing so, essentially basing Speed on three traits, not two.
That becomes an example of why I think it's impossible to get some perfect symmetry, and why I no longer look for it... but if you find a new solution to symmetry that we've all just missed so far, that'd be worth hearing about. If it's of interest to you, please keep at it!