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re Mini v0.3 (restoring deleted posts)
Mon, 2007-03-26 21:46 — tboneAnd just to make things better: in cleaning up spam and wrongly-filtered posts, I seem to have deleted the posts on GVER Mini v0.3. AAAGGGHHHH.
There, that feels better. Slightly.
Fortunately, I had the losts posts open in another tab, and can replicate them here. The lost thread bit, from DW and me:
FROM DW
OK, first time I've looked at this - a few thoughts:
You're charging too much for agility based DX. 15 points is the
cost of DX! - that is, DX without Speed (+1 DX is 20, -0.25 Speed is
-5.) That would affect everything - combat, manual Dexterity, etc.
Reduced Manual Dexterity I'd price at -1/level; Ham Fisted is -5 for a
-3 penalty but Ham Fisted also includes penalties to Influence rolls,
so the Manual Dexterity penalty alone should be around -1/level.. As
for Missile weapons, I'd put it at -2/level, giving a net cost of
12/Level for Agility DX. Or to put it another way:
Agility = DX with the limitations Doesn't Affect Speed (-25%),
Doesn't Affect Missile Weapon skills (-10%) and Doesn't Affect Manual
Dexterity (-5%.) Still modifies melee skills and potentially abusive -
only allow as part of a package.
Move for large creatures - Based on previous discussions, buying up
Move doesn't seem right - large creatures would be better simulated
by Base Move equal to human sized creatures plus Enhanced Move. I'd add
a +50% to Enhanced Move making it affect all modes. Alternately, use
the Alternate Abilities rule from GURPS Powers - each purchase of
Enhanced Move after the first is at 1/5 cost.
I'd also creating metatraits so there's one package deal for each
Size. Now all we need is five or six words for descending size for
smaller creatures. I'll see what I can come up with over the weekend.
- DW
PACKAGES, FROM DW
Titanic [465]
SM +6, +120 ST [480], -3 DX [-60], -0.75 Speed [-15], +12 Move [60]
Colossal [395]
SM +5, +78 [390], -2 DX [-40], -0.75 Speed [-10], +10 Move [50],
Gigantic [285]
SM +4, +50 ST [300], -2 DX [-40], -0.5 Speed [-10], +7 Move [35]
Enormous [165]
SM +3, +25 ST [175], -1 DX [-20], -0.5 Speed [-10], +4 Move [20]
Huge [86]
SM +2 [0], +12 ST [96], -1 DX [-20], -0.25 Speed [-5], +3 Move [15]
Large [59]
SM +1 [0], +6 ST [54], -0.25 Speed [-5], +2 Move [10]
Small [-25]
SM –1 [0], -3 ST [-30], +0.25 Speed [5], -1 Move [-5], +1 to
Acrobatics (all varieties), Jumping, Climbing and Swimming [5] (priced
as Talent)
Tiny [-40]
SM –2 [0], -5 ST [-50], +1 DX [20], +0.25 Speed [5], -2 Move [-10],
+1 to Acrobatics (all varieties), Jumping, Climbing and Swimming [5]
Diminutive [-45]
SM –3 [0], -7 ST [-70], +1 DX [20], +0.5 Speed [10], -3 Move [-15],
+2 to Acrobatics (all varieties), Jumping, Climbing and Swimming [10]
Miniscule [-40]
SM –4 [0], -8 ST [-80], +2 DX [40], +0.5 Speed [10], -4 Move [-20],
+2 to Acrobatics (all varieties), Jumping, Climbing and Swimming [10]
Minute [-45]
SM –5 or -6, -9 ST [-90], +2 DX [40], +0.75 Speed [15], -5 Move
[-25], +3 to Acrobatics (all varieties), Jumping, Climbing and Swimming
[15]
FROM TBONE
Thanks for the comments, DW.
Cost of DX: My DX (athletic only) does include DX's normal
Basic Speed adjustment – certainly, full-body agility should add to
that. So it starts at the full 20 points. (I take it my text needs to
clarify that BS is included?)
From there, High Manual DX is 5 pts/lvl in the positive direction
(i.e., "added back" when you buy -1 DX (athletic)), but has uncertain
cost in the other direction (only Ham-Fisted to go on). No neat way to
set a cost going both directions. And there's no known cost for the
missile weapon adjustment. I feel that a final 15 pts/lvl for DX
(athletic) is well within the fudge boundary, and has a neat cost.
Re Move for large creatures: I want to avoid Enhanced Move as the
default method. There should be no "break" in how large vs small
creatures work, IMO; after all, from a Halfling point of view, a human
is nothing more than a large creature with bought-up Move, yet we don't
operate under Enhanced Move restrictions. The same base rule of
movement should apply to everyone as the default.
But, I don't mind offering Enhanced Move as an option, as some big
PCs may need it purely for cost purposes. If I can make it fit, I could
add the +50% "all modes" option too.
Re special skill mods for Acrobatics, Jumping, Climbing, Swimming:
While those are part of the old GULLIVER, I think I'll leave them out
here, especially for Mini.
First, the simple fact of a DX mod does place some mod on those
skills. But why not even more extreme mods? Well, 4e doesn't place any
special penalty on Acrobatics and Jumping even for encumbrance, whereas
my DX mods stem from a lesser problem (just high mass, not high weight
& encumbrance). 4e does place an enc penalty on Climbing, and a
double one on Swimming, but again, that's for unmanageable weight, not
mass; the difference is especially clear in Swimming, where dense
carried weight should certainly cause trouble but normal-density mass
should not (i.e., whales should not have a special Swimming penalty).
For Mini, I need to keep default complications to a minimum, and
would prefer to stick with a simple DX mod as the base that anyone can
use with ease.
HOWEVER, my DX (athletic) option branches into more varied
complexity; perhaps that could be a place to fold in additional mods?
For example: double the athletic DX mod for tasks requiring exceptional
full-body agility, like more challenging uses of acrobatics and
climbing that rely heavily on arm strength. Of course, that'd boost the
value of DX (athletic); something else should be dropped to compensate.
Come to think of it, DX (athletic) shouldn't affect vehicle skills,
should it. That may provide enough balancing factor, to keep the cost
unchanged.
Just an idea; could be added to the text if worthy, and if it fits!
Finally, I really like the packages. I would like to squeeze them
in, with maybe minor name changes. ("Tiny", to me, sounds much smaller
than SM -2.) But before that, I found a few possible cost adjustments
needed. Will address those shortly.
FROM DW
Thanks for your response. It looks like my first set of comments didn't post -
your system identified it as potential spam. I can email them to you
directly (though it seems you saw them) so they can be posted.
Otherwise this conversation is hard for other people to follow.
FROM TBONE
The spam filter was indeed overzealous; looks like I can see the posts,
but thanks for helping alert me to the fact that others couldn't see
them.
I'm turning off the filter for now, and will take my chances with
the dating service and pharmaceutical ads for a while. Sorry for the
trouble; posting should be back to normal.