How did you do that neat indented guote thing? I can't fugire it out so i am suing the email quote >.

Sorry! I goofed up my setup of word processor-style controls for visitors. It should be enabled for you now; still no quick "quote" command, but much more control over formatting. I used the "indent right" button (should be obvious in the controls) for quoting.

here is the thing: the only authentic Ninja school left in the world is Dr. Masaaki Hatsumi's Bujinkan. Although there were once @70 schools, they have all died out, except the ones that Dr. Hatsmui inherited leadership of.

Well, I won't argue with you there; you know much more about ninjutsu than I do. But, er, isn't it something of a given that claims of "the one and only authentic" will be rife in a field like martial arts, with claims and counter-claims flying wildly? Who would be the one to determine that one school is "authentic" and others aren't?

But that's neither here nor there; if the school you quote is an active and respected one, it certainly does represent a body of learning that can be represented as a game style.

I highly recommnend Swashbucklers 3e, in spite of having several bones to pick with the author. If you have MA and found it of any use, you really should get SB, especially if combat with weapons is a feature of your campaign. It is invaluable for the manoeuvres alone.

I will have to pick it up. Though I expect the maneuvers will be fully covered in the upcoming MA.

Re Esquive: From your description, it sounds like an improved Retreat, that's gained upon making a skill -3 roll. Sounds fine to me so far.

Re the comments on Slip, and post-Esquive positioning, I'll take your word that the moves could be better modeled as you say. It would be interesting if you posed that to the MA team on the SJG forums; it may be too late to change the book, but they may have meaningful comment.

>But if you have the full (3E) Judo Parry in a COSH-made >skill, that includes and improves upon a "plain" parry, doesn't it? So unless I'm missing something, I don't see a >discount in order.

Well, yes, in COSH it might work out. Here is the thing: In vanilla, GURPS, Taijutsu would be represented by the Karate and Judo skills. But, that has us paying for a Karate Parry we don't use.

What I would try to do, in COSH, is do something like the D. Weber's Stripped down Judo, only for Karate. I would remove the Parry from Karate. The trick is that this would neccesitate allowing Aggressive Parry to default to Judo Parry. That is what I mean by "discount."

If I'm understanding the intent correctly, COSH is designed to do just that. Create a skill or skills, with only one high-powered Parry ability. Add Aggressive Parry among the maneuvers. I see no problem mixing and matching maneuvers; the point with COSH is that you'll end up paying for a total number of maneuvers. What those maneuvers are, should be up to you as the designer. So I think it should serve your purpose.

On a "general combat skill":

I tried making up a general combat skill. It is a bit of a pain, honestly. Yes, in GURPS the default is a bit of a problem, with some skills. (Vetinary/Animal Handling!) I don't think it is unrealitic with combat skills though. As you become really good at any one combat skill, you will be learning techniques that apply to all.

I have no problem with the idea of lots of defaults; I just find the specific implementation unsatisfying in GURPS. If a dozen combat skills default to your lead skill (say, Broadsword), then after some point, each bit of study of Broadsword counts 100% as study of all those skills. Putting study into any defaulting skill equates to throwing away points, which of course doesn't feel right.

But, I'm not aware of a simple improvement for GURPS.

As an example, our Grandmaster, Dr. Hatsumi turned out to be a very good marksman the first time he picked up a gun, juts because his knwledge of Ninjustu gave him a very good feel for how he used his body, his balance, judgement of distance, etc.

Interesting. In game terms, it sounds like a clear case of increased DX – something realistic for any experienced fighter or athlete.

One thing I do (using an ESCARG0 type sytem of course!) is allow defaults both ways between skills. It involves a bit of record keeping though. Anyway, ESCARGO fixes the point crock problem. Though I think ESCARGO rises a bit steeply. Hence I use Fibonnacci sequence in place of the ESCARGO one.

That's interesting too. Might be a good option or alternative to add to a future ESCARGO update.

>Doesn't GURPS 4e already grant this, via cross-defaults >among the three? Per my comment above, it may not be an >ideal mechanic, but it is some treatment of the matter. Do >you think the cross-defaults here should be even less?

I suppose it depends on how the weapon is taught. I think weapons should be looked at like COSH tends to. If I learn to use a swung and thrust poleram using both a middle and end grip (Ninjutsu specializes in rapidly switching to an end grip to get extra range out of pole weapons), then I should be able to use staves, spears and naginatas with it equally well.

GURPS still has me learning three skills, no matter how low the defaults.

Right, but to learn all three up to the same level will cost less than learning three unrelated skills. That'd be GURPS' way of saying that they are, at least partially, different aspects of one skill.

Re whether there should a skill or other trait representing a style's unique footwork etc.:

They actaully did represent the effects of a Style once: In SB 3e, La Destreza Verdadera gets a Speed and Min ST penatly in exhange for a bonus to Feints and Counterattacks.

And yes, I think doing this more often is worth consideration. But is needs to be done with care. It opens up the opportunity to try to give one's favourite style all kinds of unwarranted bonuses.

Right. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about: little differences that make a style unique – truly a style – and not just a collection of skills under a fancy name (all of which works no differently from the same bundle of skills without any style name). It'd be great to see more of that. But without some method for keeping these add-ons balanced, there will be trouble as you say.

COSH can go much farther than stock rules in making styles unique, which is something I really like about it.

What I find as I study is that there is more in common between real combat arts than there are differences. After all, trial and error will reveal the same basic lessons about how the human body moves and bends.

The game does handle that fine through DX, though I can understand your wanting something a little more focused as well.

>Hmm, picking up on that thought, you could also see >normally-paced, everyday mixing-and-matching of general >attacks, defenses, and other actions as "combos", if you >want to use the name, meaning normal GURPS combat does >support combos as you describe them. Would you agree?

Yes and no. A very large part of it would be remedied by just allowing variosu manoeuvres to be combined. Consider what I mentioned above. There is nothing special about doing a Slip at the same time as an Esquive. That shouldn't require a combo. There are a number of instances where using one manoeuvre at the same time as another is just common sense. Corps a Corps should be able to be done as part of a Riposte (and not as the attack, either, just as part of the Parry, like Bind(from SB 3e)). Or Pass (SB3e) + an Esquive defence, as part of a Riposte/Counterattack. Step way and parry, step in and attack.

I see. Well, the remedy does sound simple enough: allow a wider range of maneuver combinations, as you describe. I would expect disagreements on some points of what can be combined with what, but I'm sure there'd be a good-sized list that most experienced martial artists would agree on.

Another part of it is making shock happen immediately, not starting next turn. If I strike my opponent's hand with my staff, he feels that now, and it seriously inhibits his ability to keep moving that sword, offensively or defensively, and allows me to keep controlling the fight.

Interesting. Whether SJG agrees with that or not, it sounds simple enough to implement in your own games.

Do those two things and you have addressed the biggest part of the matter.

I think that's a pretty clear thumbs-up for GURPS combat, given that the two things you say are in biggest need of fixing look easy to implement!

T Bone